oh sure! i definately agree with you now that our points are more fleshed out… i think all these things should be considered
and i think both extremes are equally dangerous; urtext should be weighted with knowledge of performance practice, and other editions should be checked to make sure that nobody’s played too loose with (whatever we can know of) the composers intentions
another good example is scriabin, he never played his pieces exactly as they are on paper, but at least we don’t have the confusion of multiple editions… then we’d really be up shit creek
Oh yes, I absolutely agree, the other extreme is just as ridiculous, and I’ve often unfortunately heard many disastrous interpretations with little to no regard (or even knowledge) or what these composers were all about culturally, not to mention specific pieces of music they composed, which is pretty deplorable.
Your Scriabin example is certainly pertinent–never failed to amuse me when I got castigated for adding that extra chord in the Eb minor prelude, to tell that person to listen to Scriabin’s own recorded performance of it.
right, this type of thing is a complete misunderstanding of musical style… ultimately no edition is a substitute for proper training in interpretation!
…and even then, some of their rzewski scores have some fairly obvious misprints in CLEFS and REGISTER along with the occasional engrish-level typo. they’re also directly responsible for him getting sued over his use of the folk tune “el pueblo unido” since they didn’t follow his instructions and credit the band who wrote the original tune in the printed score
for my tastes, here’s what i’d go with for the other editions in question (sans bach):
beethoven sonatas - schenker, primarily since he doesn’t “correct” things such as the non-analogous dynamics (theme groups in expos and recaps having different dynamics) like the henle editor does. never, ever, ever work from the schnabel. while there are some cool ideas in his notes (which seem to take up more space than the music itself), it’s more of a fucked-up op-ed piece than something intended for practical use.
i’m interested in this recent abrsm edition. it seems a little faber and faber style, but i’d like to get a look at those three woo sonatas included.
mozart sonatas - baerenreiter, woop woop!
chopin etudes: paderewski, hands down. don’t use the cortot - according to da J-LO, those practice guides were written by his assistant and really don’t add anything to a study of the etudes.
This is (regrettably) a relatively widely-held opinion; I thought the same many years ago. Nowadays, the notion that there’s nothing I can learn from studying the fingerings of Busoni/Godowsky/etc couldn’t be more ridiculous to me.
you’ve misunderstood. i didn’t say one shouldn’t be interested or can’t learn anything from these editions or their fingerings, what i said was that i don’t think anyone should “buy editions [only] for fingerings”. thought that was implicitly clear…
Not quite what your first post said (which I read as expressing a ‘pianists should figure out their own fingering’ sentiment); but in any event, I still disagree. For instance, had Gould prepared an edition of the Art of Fugue annotated with his fingerings, I would certainly buy that for his fingerings alone. It appears we simply differ.
Speaking of Gould and the Art of the Fugue…the fact that he himself plays from an edition that actually LEAVES OUT several bars at the end of the final (incomplete) fugue kinda highlights the importance of owning several editions.
Fngering is one thing, sometimes these editions have unacknowledged redistribution of notes. The worst mistake I made was buying a “performance” edition of Iberia. I’d already learnt most of El Albaicin from a pdf and when I changed over to the performance edition I found that notes were redistributed all over the place. Very annoying.
I have so many times seen fingerings in editions and gone along with them, only at a later date finding that I actually have my own MUCH better ideas. I have struggled with passages, only to learn that its usually because I have followed the fingering in the edition which just dont work for me. I would never buy an edition for its fingering.
That’s probably because you were trying to follow some of the Henle editions which are often edited by musicologists who lack any significant pianistic skills. The fingerings are often laughably poor.
With regards to fingering i try to follow it if its the composers own, because it might have some musical idea behind it, ex scales with 23234 or repeated notes or w\e, but usually i like to not commit myself too much to a certain fingering but always be open for new ideas. And I never stop experimenting with it, especially in places i have problems. I have found time and time again that passages i have played badly has been because of poor fingering.
I also often look for solutions where the left hand helps the right and vice versa. It needs to feel simple, yet carry your musical idea as good as possible.
