D auniversal problem of da thirds and sixths

[Anima]

@musicsdarkangel

@Anima

ascending 3rds are indeed, illogically as it is, easier.

all the descending scales in 25/6 are the hardest parts of the piece.

it’s easier to aim your hand/wrist to the upper right than to the left when you play thirds. aiming your hand and wrist correctly makes thirds scales so much easier, but since aiming is hard descending, i think that’s why descending is harder.

it also depends on what “voice” you bring out blablabla

SO true

I hate the descending runs,

my god, the one on the 2nd page with the weird leps for the thumb… can’t stand it.

I found it helps to have top voices going legato when up, and trying to bring out the bottom voices and make them legato going down, but you probably already know this.

What practice techniques have you found particularly helpful for this etude?

Uh, nothing special really. Just slow movement practice without any possible unnecessary movements. Like when you play the next note your free fingers are already on the next to play note and you depress them a little so you “feel” the note before you play it. Or something like that…
Also helped me to practice this piece slowly as if I were playing a Chopin Nocturne as cheesy as I could. Helps your touch and control rubato and stuff at high speeds.
Practicing in groups is also a must. I often took 1 scale out of the piece and started at a slow metronome marking and kept doing +5 until I could do it at insane speeds. Usually I still fuck it up when I performed it though, just cuz this piece is a fucking bitch.
You just have to think about what you’re actually doing or have to do to make this piece work. Think about the movements you have to make, how to aim your arm/hand/wrist at every thirds-variation. You can’t “just play” this one.

[MilfHunter]

tru…da hardest of all chopets…

y did chopin ever have to write this???

[vladhorwz]

I dun like thirds either, but this is how I do them

Play da first third, drop the hand toward the thumb, now an entire separate mvmnt, play the next, again drop the hand toward the thumb, you have to have a specific action for each third not blended, tis hard but datz how da mofos do it… that’s how Taubman teaches it anyway and it improved mah thirds when I learned it that way, but you have to work at it

[musicsdarkangel]

@vladhorwz

I dun like thirds either, but this is how I do them

Play da first third, drop the hand toward the thumb, now an entire separate mvmnt, play the next, again drop the hand toward the thumb, you have to have a specific action for each third not blended, tis hard but datz how da mofos do it… that’s how Taubman teaches it anyway and it improved mah thirds when I learned it that way, but you have to work at it

So every two thirds, you drop the hand, or every third?

and btw Anima, thanks

[vladhorwz]

every third, and always toward the thumb. its minimal drop when going fast obviously.

but sheeyat…Koji is da 3rds mastah I would like to hear his input

[musicsdarkangel]

agreed

[e60m5]

@musicsdarkangel

my god, the one on the 2nd page with the weird leps for the thumb… can’t stand it.

If this is the run which I am thinking about, there is a pimp fingering which makes this a very easy run to fly down.

Try:

[42][31][42][31][42][31][53][42][31][42][31][42][31][53][42][31]…

I agree with some earlier posters in saying that slow practice is rather useless.

I disagree on the point that slow practice should be used to learn the notes. Rather, the notes should be learned mentally and intellectually rather than through muscle memory. It is quicker, more efficient, and leads to better results.

Incidentally, I would be very surprised to learn that Chopin originally intended the chromatics of 10/2 to be played only with the fourth and fifth fingers - I wouldn’t take that Wiki article at face value without a reliable source. I also would like to hear a justification for the claim that ascending thirds are more difficult than descending thirds (whether or not more dexterity is required for one than the other).

Noct, do not practice 10/1 slowly. AIM me for more.

[Anima]

@e60m5

If this is the run which I am thinking about, there is a pimp fingering which makes this a very easy run to fly down.

Try:

[42][31][42][31][42][31][53][42][31][42][31][42][31][53][42][31]…

Awww, you gave away the secret!

[Mephisto]

@e60m5

@musicsdarkangel

my god, the one on the 2nd page with the weird leps for the thumb… can’t stand it.

If this is the run which I am thinking about, there is a pimp fingering which makes this a very easy run to fly down.

Try:

[42][31][42][31][42][31][53][42][31][42][31][42][31][53][42][31]…

I agree with some earlier posters in saying that sl*w practice is rather useless.

I disagree on the point that sl*w practice should be used to learn the notes. Rather, the notes should be learned mentally and intellectually rather than through muscle memory. It is quicker, more efficient, and leads to better results.

Incidentally, I would be very surprised to learn that Chopin originally intended the chromatics of 10/2 to be played only with the fourth and fifth fingers - I wouldn’t take that Wiki article at face value without a reliable source. I also would like to hear a justification for the claim that ascending thirds are more difficult than descending thirds (whether or not more dexterity is required for one than the other).

Noct, do not practice 10/1 slowly. AIM me for more.

Please could you tell me a good way to learn that piece. I will start to learn the piece a little after my 18th birthday,

[Brewtality]

I’m beginning to think that almost ALL the fingering advocated in 25/6 iz wrong. the start 14 25 iz sheeyat then 14 25 14 23 dat suckz and it took me (sadly) agez to realise that thiz imposed a natural cap on speed. and now diz new fingering advocated by e60m5 which iz better than what waz written.

[e60m5]

@Mephisto

Please could you tell me a good way to learn that piece. I will start to learn the piece a little after my 18th birthday,

I’d definitely be willing to offer pointers. Which piece?

For the record, I went to verify the claim on Wikipedia in relation to Ashkenazy’s supposedly having never performed 10/1 in public. This is patently false, as he performed the entire Op.10 at Carnegie on 11/24/67.

Perhaps that statement is misattributed to him from Horowitz (do correct me if this is wrong).

[Anima]

@Brewtality

I’m beginning to think that almost ALL the fingering advocated in 25/6 iz wrong. the start 14 25 iz sheeyat then 14 25 14 23 dat suckz and it took me (sadly) agez to realise that thiz imposed a natural cap on speed. and now diz new fingering advocated by e60m5 which iz better than what waz written.

I have to agree with this lol. I changed LOADS of fingerings just to make it work “somewhat” properly. But then again, this piece IS fucking hard…

[Mephisto]

@e60m5

@Mephisto

Please could you tell me a good way to learn that piece. I will start to learn the piece a little after my 18th birthday,

I’d definitely be willing to offer pointers. Which piece?

For the record, I went to verify the claim on Wikipedia in relation to Ashkenazy’s supposedly having never performed 10/1 in public. This is patently false, as he performed the entire Op.10 at Carnegie on 11/24/67.

Perhaps that statement is misattributed to him from Horowitz (do correct me if this is wrong).

hihii, I ment opus 10.1.

Thanks in advamce

-da Meph