It’s difficult no matter how you juggle it, but what I worked on for so long was to be able to play it like Libetta does (and like Alkan wrote it). Note the staccato on the first beat in the LH, and the legato between the second note and the chord. To achieve the effect you have to play the figuration 3-5-chord and be agile like a cat. What I’m almost sure Hamelin does is to play it 5-1-chord, which highlights the strong octaves/fifths instead of the initial bass note and gives the passage a different feel. His solution is also easier since he chops it up in four groups and allows a small break at each barline which gives you time to comfortably reposition the hands (note the octave-wide 1-1 jump in the RH there as well). I actually think Hamelin’s solution makes more musical sense since this is what leads up to the climax of the section and it doesn’t hurt to tighten the spring a bit before the release, but you don’t get the same athletic and virtuosic effect as you do by just bursting through with accents on the bass notes à la Libetta/Alkan. To the ear the difference is as per below.
Thank you for this - very detailed and helpful, and I agree with you entirely: I far prefer Libetta here in execution, and that is the effect I would seek, even if (as you say) the alternative case could be made for Hamelin from a musical perspective. Yes, this one wouldn’t be easy to do properly! I do however wonder whether 5-5-chord might also work: that would save some distance when compared with 3-5-chord.
I think this is a great idea. I don’t remember if I experimented with 5-5 when I played the piece and if so what my conclusions were, but I was just down at the piano and tried it now and I could play it as fast and as fluently as 3-5 - and that’s after months of previous practise with 3-5 and little or none at all with 5-5. The biggest risk from my attempts now appear to be that you end up accenting the 2nd beat of the bar instead of the 1st through that legato - proper accentuation is something you get for free with 3-5 when you have the entire hand behind the bass note - but I don’t think it should be a problem with some practise. Above all 5-5 feels simpler than 3-5, and that’s a big win in passages like this.
Wut wuz da point in uzin da 3 anyway? juz becuz tiz a ztronga finga?
Diz remindz me ov da MEPH leapz where u go 2 1-5 fo da zingle note den oct leapz
Befo I tried it at da keyboard I alwayz thought…why not juz zimply uze da thumb , not index. But it juz makez much mo phyzical zenze to ‘point out’ zheeyatz wiz our index, pluz it keepz our thumbz in rezerve to haf mo potency wiz da oct
It’s definitely the easiest and most natural fingering, but it will move the slur and I think that’s worth paying attention to when Alkan (at least, I don’t remember how it looks in Chopin) has specifically indicated how he wants it, since it does give the passage a different sound to what you might otherwise do.
I’m randomly not surprised this is lost on Hamelin. It’s a general criticism I have with him - he’s all about pianistic efficiency, and his solutions often not only simplifies the pianism but the phrasing as well.
Yes I think so. Stronger hand position, and I think it also follows how the hand is naturally rotated after the chords so the only rotation you get of the wrist is on the way up when you’re doing the 5 below thing (pozz, I’m not at the piano now).
But I never could get it spinning so that’s certainly worth taking note of as well, even if I don’t know if the LH fingering was the main culprit.
I’ve never played the piece, but the articulation gives away the fingering, and in this case I agree that 5-5-chord is the best solution. Keep your l.h. fifth finger flat but firm and close to the keys, and when going from the chord to the staccato bass note, play the chord as short as possible and move the pinky already in the direction of the bass note (quick positioning). You need a kind of circular motion of the hand with a very loose wrist.
I think I do too, if I ever take it up again that’s at least what I’m going to try since I need to do something different. What guides me is just that it feels less complicated. That way it’s always easier for the hand to find out for itself what it needs to do.
I’m obviously not pianist anywhere near either Smith or Hamelin, and this is a very difficult piece, but I really tried to incorporate the accents but never could get it to work. It was either in the way for the flow, or you couldn’t properly hear it. I really would like to hear a performance which does it successfully. I’d want it as one ascending sound, though with minimal pedal, but with these rhythmical cues in the bass to give it a triplet feel. I think the trick is to “hear” where the beats are yourself as you play, but without actually hammering them out.
This iz a good thread. Thank you for pointing out da kan zon stuff. Rezpec fo messing with dat!
If you haven’t see dat vid tiz da DOC taking about editing da etz n explain how zumtym he duznt make it eaziah physically becuz da 12121212 make mo sense muzically
: tru da 
juz fucked up da writin with da ztac on down beat 
etz n explain how zumtym he duznt make it eaziah physically becuz da 12121212 make mo sense muzically