Peniztz wiz da bezt RHYTHM?

Above all diz iz da mozt important element ov penizm to me, above touch and dynamicz, altho wizout dem alzo itz a bit pointlezz n unliznable

Which peniztz and perfz dizplay da moz mazterful rhythm?

IMO da :rocky: zet da ztandard among golden age mofoz wiz hiz ROCK ZOLID zenze ov rhythm n tazteful rubato

2 Likes

The real standout I think is Richter, but also Sokolov, Hofmann, Pogo 1.0.

Contemporary pianists harzhly don’t come across very favourably in this aspect. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

5 Likes

livin penizt wikid pulze : da whale n debargue :rectum:

True that’s an important distinction to make, which is a note to self really since I always speak of them interchangeably

1 Like

I always enjoyed da governahz zenze of rhythm

1 Like

Tru that’s a good example at once of a pianist with a good sense of rhythm, but a poor sense of pulse

2 Likes

:zif: hung rappahz, legendary.

3 Likes

Perhaps this explains it well:
ā€œMeter is how time (tempo) is divided. Rhythm is about subdivision of meter with individual note values. Pulse is essentially the same as meter, and is more colloquial than theoretical. A metronome ticking or kick drum playing all quarter notes at 120 BPM could be ā€˜pulse’.ā€

So a pianist can have a good sense of rhythm in a Bach piece - with correct timing of note values - but can have a poor sense of pulse when (s)he ends much faster than (s)he started.

1 Like

The way I think of it intuitively is simply

good sense of pulse/meter = ability to strictly adhere to a given tempo, through all kinds of emotional transitions in the music, but not necessarily accenting the rhythm of the music while doing so

good sense of rhythm = resonates strongly with the rhythmical aspect of music, and makes you feel it

3 Likes

You keep saying that, and I keep not understanding why. Do you have any examples?

Off the top of my head, try his Franck PCF. Despite that Franck has explicitly marked the pulse in the score, nooooooope.

Da Zhrapnel :sunglasses:

1 Like

I don’t seem to have it in my archives, anything else?

I think it’s on Spotify etc. It’s all over otherwise - just listen and tap the beat with your hand. Where I’ve particularly thought about it with him is in passages with a clear pulse which also have a melody on top.

For the record though, I’m not one of those who revolt over rubato or playing with feeling. It’s a matter of where and how you apply it. de la Salle for instance who was recently mentioned has a lot of both dynamic and tempo fluctuations in her playing in general passages, and I loved the concert I attended with her. It’s a tool, and it’s also one thing to zig zag along a track and another to act as if it’s not there at all. If I complain about it with a pianist it’s probably as often how judiciously they use time in their playing as their actual ability (though with some pianists you begin to wonder).

I also think it’s perfectly possible to overuse it incidentally. One reason Sokolov’s Scriabin felt so grounded and earth bound for instance was, I think, since he never could sufficiently let go of the meter of the music.

Do u mofoz think practicin wiz a metronome iz ov value fo dizciplined pulze?

YES

I’d even to go as far as to say that any pianist where you get a clear sense of pulse (as opposed to rhythm), has practised with a metronome. It’s really not uncommon, at least not among Russian trained musicians. Even the grand romantic Liszt did, and several commentators of his day particularly singled out his ability to keep strict time and play in a musically correct manner.

Agreed with da X.
It certainly can help if you haff a tendency to rush or slow down at certain places where you actually want a steady pulse. But what helps even better is carefully listening back to yo own playin after recording it, and correct things.
There’s a danger that it’ll sound all too metric and too strict, too ā€œplannedā€ if you overuse the metronome though. A certain natural flexibility in phrasing is often also very much needed, or the performance sounds ā€œdeadā€.

2 Likes

I barely use the metronome at all, I think it is the enemy of true expressivity. I should probably use it more though, my playing has an element of metrical instability.

2 Likes

Yes indeed, I didn’t mean to say I think pianists use it all the time when they practise. My general impression is that it’s something which is never far from the piano in their study, and that they bring it out from time to time make sure they don’t drag here etc. As with the musical application, a tool.

1 Like

Da grove musta stopped doing dat then, I remember he did it in dat imaging being a penizt vid.
Liztening to da PF now, maybe it lacks pulse or no, either way I don’t notice it without looking for it, so it doesn’t bother me.
I remember noticing it in a Rach rec tho, sum chopin noct or sumtn, unbearable