Da Rocky

[xsdc]

Awesome Thanks!

[vladspeedster]

@xsdc

You’d think that even the janitor should have spotted that one!

Hey, don’t shit on janitors. Andrei Platonov worked as a janitor at the end of his life and he was a genius.

As Propagandhi sing, ‘…better lives have been lived in the margins,
locked in the prisons and lost on the gallows than have ever been enshrined in palaces.’

[xsdc]

Yes this is the list I saw: sites.google.com/site/simonrogers/Music/wang

Lots of interesting Hamelin too, although given how he lists it I’m a bit suspicious about the source/quality of it.

[Brewtality]

He’s a member here, it’s the same videos I’ve uploaded. I’d trust his list, he’s a good dude.

[xsdc]

@vladspeedster

@xsdc

You’d think that even the janitor should have spotted that one!

Hey, don’t shit on janitors. Andrei Platonov worked as a janitor at the end of his life and he was a genius.

As Propagandhi sing, ‘…better lives have been lived in the margins,
locked in the prisons and lost on the gallows than have ever been enshrined in palaces.’

No problem with janitors! I just meant someone random nearby not working in archiving and without an interest in music.

[Brewtality]

@vladspeedster

@xsdc

You’d think that even the janitor should have spotted that one!

Hey, don’t shit on janitors. Andrei Platonov worked as a janitor at the end of his life and he was a genius.

As Propagandhi sing, ‘…better lives have been lived in the margins,
locked in the prisons and lost on the gallows than have ever been enshrined in palaces.’

Reminds me of what Satan said in Paradise Lost “Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven”.

[xsdc]

@Brewtality

He’s a member here, it’s the same videos I’ve uploaded. I’d trust his list, he’s a good dude.

Yes, I almost figured if the Wang was from Alex. It will be a million years before I get round to writing, but please give me a heads up if he shows up again here some day.

It’s not that I don’t trust the list incidentally but it’s often really difficult to find good copies of MAH’s recordings today unless you know where they come from, since he was so popular with us kids in the late 90s and 00s who traded things on LP MiniDiscs or low quality Mp3s which could be sent over the internet, recorded 8 kbps webcasts in lack of FM/DAB/Sat equipment, did iPod conversions etc, and were real rascals in general when it came to quality and long-term thinking. Surely not all of it, but what made me a bit suspicious here was that I saw that some of the concerts listed have missing tracks or are listed out of order, indicating files as source rather than the CDs he’s marked them as (which maybe is how he archives them). It’s not only limited to early digital tech and MAH for that matter - in the analogue era there was the issue with poor FM reception and all speed copying over poor cassette decks instead, and because of all deteriorating CD-Rs, American open-reel tapes etc even recordings which once were well made and well preserved aren’t necessarily anymore today.

Tingz wuz eseah ven I wuz jung!

[Publius]

@xsdc

Oh well, I’d have to agree the rest in there was underwhelming from a pianophile’s perspective. Although I wouldn’t say no either to the Serkin or the Rubinsteins.

The Kapell would be appealing (even in the Rhapsody), but it seems they have singled it out from being available in any way? I wonder what’s up with that.

[Publius]

@xsdc

@University of Transylvania

Service copies with noise reduction (compact discs) of all recordings except Item 33 (a 1944 recording of Sergei Rachmaninoff’s Rapsodie on a theme of Paganini, piano by William Kapell), were created in 2010 and are available for use by researchers.

How could they have missed this? Ormandy’s private recs, with lots of broadcasts and similarly obviously unavailable material, and no one coming in to contact with it found two discs marked “DA FUCKING RACH HIMZELF PLAYIN DA 88” to be of any interest? You’d think that even the janitor should have spotted that one!

I don’t know the full backstory of this, but I first heard about the recording in October 2015 at which time a well known pianist had received a copy he was playing to friends. With all fakes which were still appearing at the time I didn’t believe it was authentic for a second and was essentially yes good luck with that, but nonetheless did ask among others the eventual producers of this set what they made of it, who at that time still wasn’t aware of the recording. So somewhere around five years after it had been catalogued and transferred no one had yet realized what a find it was. It rather makes me wonder what kind of place U Penn is for holding a collection like this!

Half-kidding, I wonder if there is anything in the Stokie archives that are out there, to whatever extent they exist. He seems like he would have been into bootlegging recordings.

[xsdc]

It was released in Marston’s Kapell set - I don’t know, maybe that’s why they kept it away not to interfere with their release.

[xsdc]

@publius85

@xsdc

@University of Transylvania

Service copies with noise reduction (compact discs) of all recordings except Item 33 (a 1944 recording of Sergei Rachmaninoff’s Rapsodie on a theme of Paganini, piano by William Kapell), were created in 2010 and are available for use by researchers.

How could they have missed this? Ormandy’s private recs, with lots of broadcasts and similarly obviously unavailable material, and no one coming in to contact with it found two discs marked “DA FUCKING RACH HIMZELF PLAYIN DA 88” to be of any interest? You’d think that even the janitor should have spotted that one!

I don’t know the full backstory of this, but I first heard about the recording in October 2015 at which time a well known pianist had received a copy he was playing to friends. With all fakes which were still appearing at the time I didn’t believe it was authentic for a second and was essentially yes good luck with that, but nonetheless did ask among others the eventual producers of this set what they made of it, who at that time still wasn’t aware of the recording. So somewhere around five years after it had been catalogued and transferred no one had yet realized what a find it was. It rather makes me wonder what kind of place U Penn is for holding a collection like this!

Half-kidding, I wonder if there is anything in the Stokie archives that are out there, to whatever extent they exist. He seems like he would have been into bootlegging recordings.

All I know about that is that one of my earliest friends in the piano world, Paul Hoeffler, was instrumental in seeing to that Stokowski got recorded for many decades, and I have a vague recollection of that they knew each other personally too. I’d hence guess that any authorized Stokowski bootlegs would have been from his gang, and that this is what forms the archive (hence nothing previously unknown).

[Dr.TM]

I’m still hoping for the Horowitz Stococksky Liszt 1 from 1933

[Publius]

@xsdc

@publius85

@xsdc

@University of Transylvania

Service copies with noise reduction (compact discs) of all recordings except Item 33 (a 1944 recording of Sergei Rachmaninoff’s Rapsodie on a theme of Paganini, piano by William Kapell), were created in 2010 and are available for use by researchers.

How could they have missed this? Ormandy’s private recs, with lots of broadcasts and similarly obviously unavailable material, and no one coming in to contact with it found two discs marked “DA FUCKING RACH HIMZELF PLAYIN DA 88” to be of any interest? You’d think that even the janitor should have spotted that one!

I don’t know the full backstory of this, but I first heard about the recording in October 2015 at which time a well known pianist had received a copy he was playing to friends. With all fakes which were still appearing at the time I didn’t believe it was authentic for a second and was essentially yes good luck with that, but nonetheless did ask among others the eventual producers of this set what they made of it, who at that time still wasn’t aware of the recording. So somewhere around five years after it had been catalogued and transferred no one had yet realized what a find it was. It rather makes me wonder what kind of place U Penn is for holding a collection like this!

Half-kidding, I wonder if there is anything in the Stokie archives that are out there, to whatever extent they exist. He seems like he would have been into bootlegging recordings.

All I know about that is that one of my earliest friends in the piano world, Paul Hoeffler, was instrumental in seeing to that Stokowski got recorded for many decades, and I have a vague recollection of that they knew each other personally too. I’d hence guess that any authorized Stokowski bootlegs would have been from his gang, and that this is what forms the archive (hence nothing previously unknown).

I meant recordings that Stokowski himself taped…

[xsdc]

Oh. Yeah. Well, Freire and Demidenko did bootlegs so why not Mr. Stokie.

[88]

University of Transylvania wrote:
Service copies with noise reduction (compact discs) of all recordings except Item 33 (a 1944 recording of Sergei Rachmaninoff’s Rapsodie on a theme of Paganini, piano by William Kapell), were created in 2010 and are available for use by researchers.

That is shocking. It means this new Rach was available there already for eight years? I wonder what da Ainley thinks of this and why it took so long.
Somebody needs to do a serious investigation into the private collections of great 20th Century musicians that were donated to universities. Who knows what treasures are still out there, rotting away, with only restricted access for the public.

[Dr.TM]

Yes exactly. Disturbing.

Plus there is that lost 1950 Horowitz recital which was reportedly sold to a Japanese collector.

How about the Horowitz Rach 2nd Suite with Gradova still in the hands of her son? Inexcusable.

There is also a Horowitz Liszt Sonata video from 1977 which the record companies are trying to pry lose from a collector, some random prick dentist.

Who knows what else is out there.

[88]

Wow, unbelievable…I’ll research about that Jap. collector.

About the Rach Symf Dances, da Ainley replied to me:

'Marston emailed their customers the other day with this statement: “For over ten years we have been working on a very significant piano discovery: a private recording of Rachmaninoff at the piano demonstrating just how he wanted his new orchestral work, Symphonic Dances, to be performed. While this project was of great importance, progress was painfully slow and its release even seemed questionable. Certain circumstances changed a year or so ago, making this project a possibility, but recently we were thrown a major curveball. A copy of the recording was leaked and was out in the public. We feared this recording would be all over the Internet in inferior form and out of our hands. While we had many pieces in place, we had to drop everything and finish this project in relative silence, as logic dictated.”

Once something has been donated somewhere, the bureaucracy can be pretty prohibitive, so I imagine with this there was quite a lot they have to circumvent…

And yes, one wonders what other treasures are languishing in official and private archives. Thank goodness this is now becoming available - it is really quite beyond description…’

[Publius]

@leechermofo

Yes exactly. Disturbing.

Plus there is that lost 1950 Horowitz recital which was reportedly sold to a Japanese collector.

How about the Horowitz Rach 2nd Suite with Gradova still in the hands of her son? Inexcusable.

There is also a Horowitz Liszt Sonata video from 1977 which the record companies are trying to pry lose from a collector, some random prick dentist.

Who knows what else is out there.

Which Horowitz recital is that? What’s the story there? Seems crazy that no other copy would exist besides what was sold.

[xsdc]

@pianoopera

Wow, unbelievable…I’ll research about that Jap. collector.

About the Rach Symf Dances, da Ainley replied to me:

'Marston emailed their customers the other day with this statement: “For over ten years we have been working on a very significant piano discovery: a private recording of Rachmaninoff at the piano demonstrating just how he wanted his new orchestral work, Symphonic Dances, to be performed. While this project was of great importance, progress was painfully sl*w and its release even seemed questionable. Certain circumstances changed a year or so ago, making this project a possibility, but recently we were thrown a major curveball. A copy of the recording was leaked and was out in the public. We feared this recording would be all over the Internet in inferior form and out of our hands. While we had many pieces in place, we had to drop everything and finish this project in relative silence, as logic dictated.”

Once something has been donated somewhere, the bureaucracy can be pretty prohibitive, so I imagine with this there was quite a lot they have to circumvent…

And yes, one wonders what other treasures are languishing in official and private archives. Thank goodness this is now becoming available - it is really quite beyond description…’

I know we’ve been through this already, but really - wouldn’t that have been the best solution? It’s of a musician who died decades ago, it has no intrinsic commercial tie, and it is of great public interest. That of course makes it a dream target for a company like this to seize, but with the platform that exist through the internet today there’s exactly zero reason why people should have to go through a Marston paywall to hear it. Thanks to that they got their claws in it it will now be bought by a couple of hundreds, rather than streamed by millions if it had been made freely available - as I think should have been the goal when it was discovered rather than try to make money off of it like this. They make it sound like some major catastrophe was narrowly avoided by keeping the recording away from the public, but the only blow it would have dealt had it leaked would have been to their check book.

I also note for what it’s worth that it’s released in a 3-CD set where each disc costs less than a dollar for them to add, but triple the price for the consumer. Remember, the recordings on here are in public domain - they’re not licensing them or paying anything to release them. Marston is of course a hugely important company for people with our interest and I don’t deny them the possibility of running their business, but they are important because of their complete Godowsky set, the Sauer release etc where significant time and effort is involved to collect, transfer and research the material in question. Monetizing and copyright claiming new discoveries like this however is working against the music world rather than for it, and I really think it needs to be recognized as such.

[88]

…rather than streamed by millions if it had been made freely available - as I think should have been the goal when it was discovered rather than try to make money off of it like this. They make it sound like some major catastrophe was narrowly avoided by keeping the recording away from the public, but the only blow it would have dealt had it leaked would have been to their check book.

EXACTLY. I love Marston and I bought several of their CDs, but I won’t purchase this set. I’ll just wait until somebody shares it here or somewhere else.