Wagner and Mahler

Sup fellow demons , waz out of internet for a few months, am back now.

I’ve always absolutely adored Wagner, my favorite by him is Siegfried but Mahler I knew nothing about except that he composed symphonies that I never heard or never bothered to listen to. I just recently discovered his music, specifically his 8th symphony “Der Tausend” by Solti. I am so glad I did WTF I can’t even stop listening to it, absolutely incredible stuff, surprising at every turn, original, unique ( although I can hear Wagnerian influences in there for sure .) I cried on my first hearing of the symphony, so beautiful, so ingenious, so fucking smart hahah. I downloaded his complete symphonies by Solti and am currently exploring his music.

Which leads me to my original reason for posting this… What are your favorite pieces, recordings, conductors of Wagner and Mahler. How did you discover them? What do you think of those composers etc… I want you guys opinions ( which I have the utmost respect for. )

For me right now Wagner’s Siegfried and Mahler 8th is all I ever listen to.
Any other notable symphonies?

Peace out mofoz :stop:

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Mahler’s 2nd was the first Mahler symphony that I got into. It’s also one of the only ones I can understand atm (the other being the 1st). I recommend Klemperer on EMI GROC and Mehta on Decca, although I think the Klemperer is a bit better.

For Mahler 1 Kubelik live has a great rec in great sound.

For the rest of the symphonies I can’t give personal opinions but ones that critics have generally favored. for example Bernstein/Sony in the 3rd and 7th and Bernstein/DG in the 5th, and Szell in the 4th are ones that immediately come to mind.

Appreciated as always, thanks BRO 8)

gud zoundtrack :doc:

Yeah itz nice

I generally prefer Bruckner to Mahler, but I still do a healthy amount of Mahler listening. My favourite Mahler conductor is Kubelik, without a doubt. Walter, Barbirolli, Horenstein, Ancerl and Klemperer are a few others I recommend without reservation. My favourite symphony would likely be 7, followed closely by 9. However, there’s not a weak symphony in the batch. I like all of them. If I had to pick 5 great Mahler recordings to recommend to a newbie, they would be: Klemperer’s Mahler 2, Kubelik’s Live Mahler 7, Ancerl’s Mahler 9, Kubelik’s 1951 Mahler 5th and maybe Barbirolli’s live 6th on Testament.

Since I already typed this out for someone else, here’s my big list of favourites:

Complete Symphonies: Kubelik, Gielen, Bernstein-Sony, Bertini, Neumann
Symphony 1: Ancerl, Kubelik-Live, Kondrashin-Live, Fischer, Walter
Symphony 2: Klemperer, Mehta, Walter, Kubelik-Audite, Fischer
Symphony 3: Kubelik-DG, Horenstein, Steinberg, Adler, Mitropoulos
Symphony 4: Horenstein, Fischer, Kubelik-DG, Maazel, Sanderling-BBC
Symphony 5: Kubelik-Live 1951, Barbirolli, Bertini, Tennstedt
Symphony 6: Barbirolli-Live, Mitropoulos, Horenstein-BBC, Kubelik Live, Fischer
Symphony 7: Kubelik-Live, Horenstein-Live, Kondrashin-Live, Bernstein
Symphony 8: Kubelik-Live, Mitropoulos, Horenstein, Bertini
Symphony 9 - Ancerl, Klemperer EMI, Walter, Szell Live, Giulini
Symphony 10 - Ormandy, Gielen, Rattle
Das Lied - Klemperer, Walter, Kubelik Live, Horenstein BBC

The Kindertotenlieder, Klagende Lieder, Das Knaben Wunderhorn and Songs of a wayfarer are great. I also somewhat enjoy the Piano Quartet movement.

If you would like any of these recordings listed above, I’d be happy to post some.

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I know no Mahler at all pretty much. I just listened to the first part of his 8th Symphony with Rattle. It was pretty great, but it came across as a bit of an orgy of sound. I didnt really get much of it, but then it was only first listening… I think I might be starting with the wrong piece, although it worker for Grim.

I have ordered Bernsteins complete cycle on Sony which should hopefully arrive tomorrow. Are there any recommendations on where to begin? The obvious answer would be the beginning, but thats not always the best way.

Lots of people say start with the 1st or the 4th since they are the shortest and therefore easiest to get into. I disagree. If you want Mahler then you should listen to what makes Mahler great (the epic, large-scale vision) instead of pandering to another style. Same goes for all composers. So I would recommend the Klemperer 2nd. I know you ordered the Bernstein box, and the Sony performance is his best out of all his Mahler 2nds, but I find the tempo that he (and pretty much every other conductor besides Klemperer and Mehta) takes in the first movement to be very difficult to digest. I think he does unleash the most FURY out of any conductors in the finale though :smiling_imp:

MAssive respect, turns out I downloaded the complete Kubelik ( not Solti ), currently listening to thiz. Thanks a lot for all ur suggestions, anyhing you feel like uploading that you really want to share I will gladly take.

Amazing read on Wagner… well.com/user/woodman/singth … liche.html ( tabs on left, love whoever did that site, great guy. )

The Nibelungen ( Dwarves ) endlessly digging for gold would be a metaphor for the Jews… Wagner was such a dick…

The first part of the 8th is great, Veni creator spiritus to gloria patri domino… but I cried during the 5-6 first minutes of “Waldung sie schwankt heran”, just afterwards. I was so awe-struck, not sad or emotional tears but tears of joy and pride, very hard to explain.

A bunch of Mahler stuff for your bad self:

mediafire.com/?4iqn1gwi8lfo3 … jd3633uazw

thx a lot man

edit: Got half of it and get permission denied, will try again later. Missing the Horenstein and Kubelik.

That’s funny coz the exact opposite -

There it a LOT of polyphony so maybe thats the reason.
I love how someone referred the 1st mov as a ‘Shout at God’!

I don’t see anything wrong with going in order - 1 is generally regarded as the most original symphony he wrote, yet contains the Mahler hall marks - the orchestration, 2nd mov landler, 3rd mov parody etc… it’s certainly accessible and then move on to the larger 2.

Perhaps the best way is from the beginning… That way I start with a short one, and the earliest chronologically, then get into ‘what Mahler is all about’ as was suggested with the 2nd.
I know I am missing something having not got to know any Mahler. My CD set hasnt turned up still which is annoying. I guess it depends what angle you are coming from. If somebody asked me about getting to know Beethoven, I certainly wouldnt recommend starting with the 1st, however great a work it might be. Maybe getting to know both the 1st and 2nd is a good idea. No way can anybody appreciate a work on the first hearing anyway.

Fully appreciate a work nah, you’re right… even more so with Wagner and Mahler, so complicated on so many levelz. Absolute pinnacle of thematic treatment.

I have a feeling Wagner would not have been an anti-semite had he known Mahler’s music… Mahler obviously a huge admirator of Wagner (hiz music)

I doubt it; Wagner was able to separate “the Jews” from any individual jew he may have befriended or admired (e.g. Tausig). As such I think he would still have been an anti-semite.

Which do u prefer?
  • Wagner
  • Mahler

0 voters

Whoever votez Wagner now on sum anti-zemitizm watchlizt


I dun jus vote Wagner, I play Wagner tranniez in public.

Really funny moment a couple of years ago when I played da :pimp: Rienzi one on a station 88 and a random mofo came up and starting talking about Hitler.